"Tony Montana"
12-05-09, 08:30
Amigos do F2L,
Li esse artigo do Sherdog (http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/1/mark-schultz-where-is-he-now-15062) (com 4 paginas) em que o Mark Schultz diz ter sido enganado por Antonio Inoki e contratado para uma luta de pro-wrestling (falsa) contra o brasileiro Leopoldo Montenegro no Jungle Fight 1 (detalhes na pag.3). Na busca de mais informacoes acabei me deparando com o texto abaixo, de um forum gringo de MMA. Mesmo quem nao entende muito de ingles consegue ler quais lutas foram levantadas como set-up fights (lutas com resultado combinado).
O que vcs acham? Houve/Ha esse tipo de luta no MMA???
ps. termos bastante utilizados em ingles para esse tipo de luta: set-up, work, worked fight, scripted fight, thrown fight.
First of all the term "work" is often misused. A "worked" fight is one in which both fighters agree to work toward a predetermined finish. A "thrown" fight is one in which one of the fighters takes a dive or allows himself to be defeated - his opponent may or may not be aware of it. For example Oleg-Macias was not a work because Oleg was clearly not aware that Macias was going to take a dive.
Fights that are generally considered by consensus to be worked or thrown:
Oleg Taktarov vs. Anthony Macias (UFC VI) - According to Macias, Buddy Albin the local site promoter and manager of both fighters threatened that Macias' career would be over unless he took a dive against Oleg. Oleg was unware of this. Macias went on to win titles in several Albin-promoted events. Buddy Albin was a total sleeze bag BTW.
Dan Severn vs. Mitsuhiro Matsunaga (U-Japan) - Severn denies that his fight against pro wrestler Matsunaga was worked, but watching the fight itself leaves little doubt and the general consensus is that this was a worked fight.
Kimo vs Kazushi Sakuraba (S-Cup) - This was billed as a legit NHB fight on a Shootboxing card, but it turns out it was not legit (another NHB fight on the card, M. Illioukhin vs Mestre Hulk was legit). The fight looks very real and Kimo lands a number of really solid shots and headbutts. There are several versions of what took place in this fight, but perhaps the closest thing to the truth is the version that has Sakuraba carrying Kimo for most of the fight before finally taking a dive without Kimo's knowledge. That would explain Kimo throwing real shots and Sak playing defense the whole time and also the fact that Kimo vehemently (and convincingly) insists it was legit, yet Sakuraba has said on several occasions that his first shoot MMA fight was the Conan Silviera fight, not the Kimo fight.
Murakami Kazunari vs. John Dixon (Pride 1) - It was well-known in the fight community even before the first Pride took place that the Kazunari-Dixon and Kitao-Jones fights would be works. Pride's initial intent was to showcase different types of fights in addition to NHB - full contact karate, kickboxing and also shoot-style works like RINGS and PWFG. Later Pride would be more secretive about its worked fights.
Koji Kitao vs Nathan Jones (Pride 1) - See above.
Nobuhiko Takada vs. Kyle Sturgeon (Pride 3) - All of Takadas "wins" were blatant works. This is pretty much common knowledge.
Nobuhiko Takada vs. Mark Coleman (Pride 5) - See above.
Nobuhiko Takada vs. Alexander Otsuka (Pride 7) - See above.
Fights that are suspected of being works but there is no consensus agreement:
Don Frye vs. Mark Hall 3 (Ultimate Ultimate 2) - Several months after the fact Hall claimed that in the locker room before the match Frye had offered him $50,000 to take a dive so he would be fresh when he fought Tank in the finals (Frye had had a grueling match with Goodridge in the opening round and was exhausted). Hall came out with his accusations because, he said, Frye never paid him. Frye vehemently denied it and said Hall was a disturbed individual. Hall was blacklisted by the fight community and never fought again. The jury is still out on this one.
Naoya Ogawa vs. Gary Goodridge (Pride 6) - Anytime a pro wrestler (other than Sak) gets a win in Pride people will claim it was a work. Gary denies this was a work but many people suspect it was. Hard to tell for sure.
Naoya Ogawa vs. Masaaki Sataki (Pride 11) - See above.
Vitor Belfort vs. Joe Charles (Ultimate Japan 1) - Vitor was sick and refused to fight unless he was able to pick his opponent. He chose Charles who was one of his training partners at the time. No strikes were thrown in what turned out to be a grappling match, with Vitor winning by armbar. Whether this was a worked fight or they simply had a gentleman's agreement not to strike is open to question.
Mark Schultz vs. Leopoldo Montenegro (Jungle Fight 1) - Schultz claims this was work but everyone else involved denies it. There have been questions about some of Montenegro's other fights in the Inoki run promotion as well.
Pancrase works: - The Pancrase organiztion admitted that there had been some worked fights early on, but did not say how many or which ones. Fights that most people agree were works are Shamrock-Hume, Shamrock-Suzuki 2, and Suzuki-Funaki. A number of others are suspected. Bas Rutten claims that he never participated in a work in Pancrase.Fonte (http://forums.mmanews.com/general-mma-forum/4113-mma-fights-fixed.html)
Li esse artigo do Sherdog (http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/1/mark-schultz-where-is-he-now-15062) (com 4 paginas) em que o Mark Schultz diz ter sido enganado por Antonio Inoki e contratado para uma luta de pro-wrestling (falsa) contra o brasileiro Leopoldo Montenegro no Jungle Fight 1 (detalhes na pag.3). Na busca de mais informacoes acabei me deparando com o texto abaixo, de um forum gringo de MMA. Mesmo quem nao entende muito de ingles consegue ler quais lutas foram levantadas como set-up fights (lutas com resultado combinado).
O que vcs acham? Houve/Ha esse tipo de luta no MMA???
ps. termos bastante utilizados em ingles para esse tipo de luta: set-up, work, worked fight, scripted fight, thrown fight.
First of all the term "work" is often misused. A "worked" fight is one in which both fighters agree to work toward a predetermined finish. A "thrown" fight is one in which one of the fighters takes a dive or allows himself to be defeated - his opponent may or may not be aware of it. For example Oleg-Macias was not a work because Oleg was clearly not aware that Macias was going to take a dive.
Fights that are generally considered by consensus to be worked or thrown:
Oleg Taktarov vs. Anthony Macias (UFC VI) - According to Macias, Buddy Albin the local site promoter and manager of both fighters threatened that Macias' career would be over unless he took a dive against Oleg. Oleg was unware of this. Macias went on to win titles in several Albin-promoted events. Buddy Albin was a total sleeze bag BTW.
Dan Severn vs. Mitsuhiro Matsunaga (U-Japan) - Severn denies that his fight against pro wrestler Matsunaga was worked, but watching the fight itself leaves little doubt and the general consensus is that this was a worked fight.
Kimo vs Kazushi Sakuraba (S-Cup) - This was billed as a legit NHB fight on a Shootboxing card, but it turns out it was not legit (another NHB fight on the card, M. Illioukhin vs Mestre Hulk was legit). The fight looks very real and Kimo lands a number of really solid shots and headbutts. There are several versions of what took place in this fight, but perhaps the closest thing to the truth is the version that has Sakuraba carrying Kimo for most of the fight before finally taking a dive without Kimo's knowledge. That would explain Kimo throwing real shots and Sak playing defense the whole time and also the fact that Kimo vehemently (and convincingly) insists it was legit, yet Sakuraba has said on several occasions that his first shoot MMA fight was the Conan Silviera fight, not the Kimo fight.
Murakami Kazunari vs. John Dixon (Pride 1) - It was well-known in the fight community even before the first Pride took place that the Kazunari-Dixon and Kitao-Jones fights would be works. Pride's initial intent was to showcase different types of fights in addition to NHB - full contact karate, kickboxing and also shoot-style works like RINGS and PWFG. Later Pride would be more secretive about its worked fights.
Koji Kitao vs Nathan Jones (Pride 1) - See above.
Nobuhiko Takada vs. Kyle Sturgeon (Pride 3) - All of Takadas "wins" were blatant works. This is pretty much common knowledge.
Nobuhiko Takada vs. Mark Coleman (Pride 5) - See above.
Nobuhiko Takada vs. Alexander Otsuka (Pride 7) - See above.
Fights that are suspected of being works but there is no consensus agreement:
Don Frye vs. Mark Hall 3 (Ultimate Ultimate 2) - Several months after the fact Hall claimed that in the locker room before the match Frye had offered him $50,000 to take a dive so he would be fresh when he fought Tank in the finals (Frye had had a grueling match with Goodridge in the opening round and was exhausted). Hall came out with his accusations because, he said, Frye never paid him. Frye vehemently denied it and said Hall was a disturbed individual. Hall was blacklisted by the fight community and never fought again. The jury is still out on this one.
Naoya Ogawa vs. Gary Goodridge (Pride 6) - Anytime a pro wrestler (other than Sak) gets a win in Pride people will claim it was a work. Gary denies this was a work but many people suspect it was. Hard to tell for sure.
Naoya Ogawa vs. Masaaki Sataki (Pride 11) - See above.
Vitor Belfort vs. Joe Charles (Ultimate Japan 1) - Vitor was sick and refused to fight unless he was able to pick his opponent. He chose Charles who was one of his training partners at the time. No strikes were thrown in what turned out to be a grappling match, with Vitor winning by armbar. Whether this was a worked fight or they simply had a gentleman's agreement not to strike is open to question.
Mark Schultz vs. Leopoldo Montenegro (Jungle Fight 1) - Schultz claims this was work but everyone else involved denies it. There have been questions about some of Montenegro's other fights in the Inoki run promotion as well.
Pancrase works: - The Pancrase organiztion admitted that there had been some worked fights early on, but did not say how many or which ones. Fights that most people agree were works are Shamrock-Hume, Shamrock-Suzuki 2, and Suzuki-Funaki. A number of others are suspected. Bas Rutten claims that he never participated in a work in Pancrase.Fonte (http://forums.mmanews.com/general-mma-forum/4113-mma-fights-fixed.html)